Rewards Table 'Level Requirement' ColumnEdit
Okay there have been a few edits to the Rewards Table regarding the Dungoneering level we should attach to a particular item, which I have been reverting due to a few reasons I'll give below. Perhaps this might not be the general consensus which is why I'm making this discussion topic. There are two possible levels that we could consider the 'Level requirement' of an item. One would be the 'level requirement' Jagex gave the item, and the other would be the 'level requirement' imposed due to the token cost. The minimum level required (or actual level requirement) to use the item would be the higher of either of those two. So this makes three possible columns to include.
We could put all three columns into the table, but I personally think there should only be one level column, the current one, which gives the actual level requirement.
My main motivation is that the purpose of a table is to condense information into a highly accesible form which can be easily and quickly understood. Attaching multiple Dungoneering levels to one item will detract from this, since it means people will have to understand what the multiple levels represent.
Secondly, the lower of either the Jagex given level or the token cost imposed level is quite a useless number. The level does not represent anything. In a sense, this means the third column (i.e. the actual requirement column) is a summary of all the important information of the previous two columns; essentially all three columns condensed into one column without any loss of useful information. Something which I think is exactly what a table should do.Anincent 02:57, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
I belive so. I tried fixing some of the tables, but I don't know how to edit tables and it just got worse, so I'm waiting for someone else to do it. Thunder9092 16:41, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
Looked up how to do the templates, so I added those to the whole page. Looks a lot nicer, but some things still need stats. Should be easy enough to edit in though now. Thunder9092 17:34, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
What if, instead of having a header for each reward, a chart was made to include everything. Each item has its own row and the columns would be entitled: Item - Price (tokens) - Members? etc... Then have seperate articals for each item where more specific information, such as stats, is listed? Hank102938 02:31, April 21, 2010 (UTC)
Yes I very much agree with the notion that the entire rewards information should be tabulated. Since we can't put tables in tables, and there is some excellent information in the form of tables, I would suggest making links in the 'master' table (the table with everything) that take readers to the relevant sections of the article (ie. every item in the master table should be a link to a section later in the article). I would personally do it, but I'm meant to be studying for my exams :(.Anincent 16:17, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
Has anyone got to play with sighted longbows yet? VelvetClaw 06:22, April 14, 2010 (UTC)
- Not yet, you need at least level 65 to have enough tokens to buy it, and nobody is there yet. Teltic 06:43, April 14, 2010 (UTC)
- How sad. What's the bleeping point of setting the dungeoneering requirement so low, unless JaGex intended that there is a certain trick? VelvetClaw 15:05, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
- yes i have 2 (maple im f2p) which i have been using to train my range on ice giants, they hit consistently and, since they are long, a little slower than maple short. I think it's faster training with them, but if you're p2p there are a lot more options.Briod the Bean 23:16, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
Requirements are wrong Edit
It's impossible to get 13k tokens at level 25, so maybe changing the requirements to mach the actual requirements? 188.8.131.52 17:07, April 17, 2010 (UTC)
These are way overcharged for their worth. If the gem bag is 13k tokens, then that will for sure take over 12 hours to get even if you are level 50.
level required for tokens vs experience required for tokensEdit
having the experience needed to get a specific number of tokens is redundant as it is exactly 10x the number of tokens. a much more useful metric would be to have the levels you need to get to achieve that amount of experience, this way, at a glance, you can tell whether it is an economic purchase at your level.
I had posted the values as minimum levels, but it was changed, so i will assume the consensus is that the redundant information is more useful. if you feel differently, feel free to vote to change it back to minimum level. votes:
Loqk 11:33, April 21, 2010 (UTC)
headlines of rewards: (xM xp needed) EditI would not add this "(xM xp needed)" to the headlines! Since the amount of tokens u get is the xp rounded down. So 200k tokens is not equal 2M xp - its more like 2.1M in reality... any1 else of my opinion? 13:47, April 21, 2010 (UTC)
Grrrrr! Historical data deleted! Original pricesEdit
I put this into trivia this morning, as the change was happening, and someone deleted it.
- 13k - Gem bag
- 20k - Coal bag
- 21k - Arcane pulse necklace
- 45k - Longbow sight
- 50k - Arcane blast necklace
- 60k - Nature staff
- 60k - Law staff
- 65k - Scroll of life
- 70k - Tome of frost
- 90k - Gravite weapons
- 100k - Arcane stream necklace
- 100k - Anti-poison totem
- 110k - Bonecrusher
- 115k - Mercenary's gloves
- 130k - Scroll of renewal
- 190k - Scroll of augury
- 400k - Chaotic weapons
- 400k - Chaotic shield
- 400k - Farseer shield
- 400k - Eagle-eye shield
Mamabear47 20:58, April 21, 2010 (UTC)
We should have this somewhere in the article, it's very nice to know. Especially when the change in price is a widely talked about topic (At least earlier it was) Wires77 02:14, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
Reason for KB copy-pasting Edit
I'm not the one who did it, but theres an obvious reason for it. Almost noone has enough dungeoneering level or tokens to buy them and provide data from practical experience. I wonder how the gem and coal bags will work? One time? How will it be possible to put coal/gems in them? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Darkheartl (talk) on 14:00, April 24, 2010 (UTC).
still messed up Edit
the token-xp thing still isnt at the point where u can buy rewards by the level 4 them, yet the article says its fixed.15:48, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
God damn it Edit
Just let the jagex level requirements be in the table.
It's extremely hard to figure out what's going on like this. There's no good reason the original level requirements can't be in the list along with the level at which you have enough tokens for it. In fact, it makes even more sense to have the original level requirements in the table INSTEAD of the level at which the tokens are gained. Sincerely yours, Tsun, who quitted editing RsWiki exactly for reasons like this. I won't even bother to log in this time. 184.108.40.206 13:13, May 26, 2010 (UTC)
The level in the table is intended to simply be the minimum level to be able to use the item (ie. the 'level requirement'). Since the tokens and experience are tied, some items have different level requirements to the ones that Jagex gave, which can be confusing, but that is the fault of Jagex, not the Wiki.
I disagree that it makes more sense to list the Jagex given level requirements, since for most of the items you can't use the item at those levels, which is firstly misleading but also makes the table inaccurate. Listing both the minimum level to accrue enough tokens and the Jagex given level requirement just adds unnecessary clutter to the table which is intended to condense as much information as possible in a small space; people will look at both the numbers and be forced to compare the two to decide which represents the actual level requirement, which in my opinion is much more confusing than having this pre-done conveniently in one column. Anincent 05:09, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
I don't think it would look cluttered at all. If people can't figure out a simple table, that's their fault, not the wiki's. Especially in a case such as this.
- It's not specifically about what people can understand, it's more about the compactness of the table and how fast people can comprehend the information; preferably, we want it to be as compact (without losing important information) and as quickly comprehended as possible. The reason why I stated that it could be confusing is because 220.127.116.11 said it was, and that they "quitted editing RsWiki exactly for reasons like this" as if it was the Wiki's fault.
- The table in it's previous state can be seen in here. When you look at the two columns to extract information, the first thing you would do (at least what I did) is to see whichever is higher. It would most definitely be a useful edit to the Wiki (and be a very productive utility for the sortable table) if we added a third column that automatically does this for the player. But then we are prompted with the idea that maybe we should redefine what the level requirement is and then make it the sole column in the table; it would have exactly the same utility as all three columns put together, but be much neater and much more quickly comprehended, something perfect for a table. This is exactly what I did (the table immediately after the change seen here, though it has since been refined a bit more) and is what I assume prompted this "God damn it" response in the talk page.
- I think the reason they were so angry was because they thought contribution was for nothing, and that they wasted their time with the edit. But, and I'm hoping they eventually read this, it wasn't, and they didn't waste their time; their contribution is still clearly visible now in the form of a much more accurate table (since some of the old level values were wrong in terms of the new more rigorous definition of the level requirement) in addition to the added "trivia" of knowing which items are actually barred back by the Jagex level requirement (i.e. which items actually have the Jagex level requirement as a level requirement).Anincent 13:27, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
- Okay, it seems I'm coming into this discussion rather late. Is there such a thing as an expandable table? i.e. The table shows the higher of the two requirements, and the table can be expanded to show the two separately. I doubt that's possible, so maybe we could have another table that shows the requirements. And maybe have the old prices in that table as well? This might be viable especially if the below suggestion is taken. Wires77 13:55, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
Isn't it a bit redundant to have stats/descriptions in this article and separate articles of their own? I just added to the coal bag section here, only to find most of what I talked about was already in the coal bag article. I suggest removing or merging all the separate sections. Let's leave this article to a list of rewards and an overview of how to obtain rewards or the rewards trader. Wires77 02:31, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
- Hmm yes, it does seem a bit like "For more information check below, and for even more information check here." which is probably a bit excessive. As a fun fact, the article has this format because it was originally completely copied from the Runescape Knowledge Base, where it was then decided that tabulating the rewards would be a good idea.
- If we look at this in the perspective that we want this article featured; it would need to cover just about every aspect of Dungoneering Rewards, and having a seperate section with each individual item seems to be exactly how to achieve this. Maybe we could shave off a lot of the "trivia" or "extra tips" sort of things and leave that for the specific articles, while still maintaining a each section with a little bit more information than the table, but still without any trivialities. Though once again this chain-referral-for-more-information will still be with us.
- I think an additional section on the rewards trader would be good; particularly an image of his wares. If we can get a lot of other sections (of things useful to know) somehow to increase the size of this article significantly (enough to be featured) then it would be a good idea to remove the sections on individual rewards.Anincent 13:57, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
Dungeoneering experience at different levels? Edit
It could be useful to add an estimation table of how much xp you get for fully completed dungeons at each level, to help assuming how many floors you need to do for a specific level etc. It would also be interesting to extrapolate that to predict how much xp you get with future released floors, which should go up to level 119 dungeoneering. Lr5 23:04, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
- The amount of experience (and hence the amount of tokens) people get varies a lot based on how many rooms were opened (which is related to floor size), how they played (i.e. the modifier section), what Prestige they have, their combat level, whether or not they are F2P/P2P player and no doubt a few other things which I can't think of at the moment. Some players could most definitely get ten (or more) times as many tokens per floor than another player. It would be impossible to make a table with the information you're suggesting, at least not one that is accurate for all players.Anincent 07:42, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
- The modifiers can be taken away from the calculations, so the only thing affecting base xp (or whatever the first one is) is the floor, and how many bonus doors were opened. The amount of bonus rooms seems to be quite stable, so approximations would be precice enough to be useful, given that it is clearly stated the xp is based on doing all the bonus floors and not counting modifiers. Lr5 21:47, June 27, 2010 (UTC)
Once a reward has been selected and purchased, is there any way to return the reward to the Reward Trader (In a similar fashion to the Castle Wars reward system)? I was curious if they were returnable and if so, what the return payout is compared to the original cost. --Crystalis178 18:03, July 23, 2010 (UTC)
10:1 exp:reward token ratio WRONG?Edit
I recently made a new account. It's got 200 tokens, yet it only has 1300 experience! 1300 ÷ 10 = 130 tokens? why do I have 200...
Someone help me solve this. :S
EDIT: alot of other people seem to be asking "why does *reward item* have a certain level requirement, yet you cannot get that amount of reward tokens by the time you get to that level?" maybe it isn't 10:1... Or there is another factor, something like 0.1% extra tokens for every 100 tokens you already have? I dunno.
- You get a small bonus for unlocking some of the floors/modes (complexity). I'm not sure on the exact levels and complxity modes, but I can definately remember some text saying something like "You've been awarded x tokens for unlocking complexity 6.
- JoeDaStudd 09:09, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
Description Column is Way Too Thin Edit
Does anyone know about how we would go about making the description column wider? At the moment, the horizontal space restriction makes it extremely difficult to read because you only have two to four words per line. It also gives the table a huge verticle extension, which makes it look terrible.
This is something that has occured due to the new Wiki layout, which has seemingly placed a restriction on how wide the page is no matter how wide (or thin) your browser window is (very bad for compatability in my opinion).
I have played around with changing the font size and column resizing but it didn't seem to work, although I might have been using the wrong 'code' (here is an example of the table format I really think would look good, the 'Loot' column is what the Description column should look like, the smaller font size should of course help with fitting more information without making the table look excessively long).
If it's not possible to resize the other columns or change the font size, then we're going to have to remove a column of two. We could merge the 'Members Only?' column into the description column. I personally think the two 'level requirement' columns is excessive, as it's possible to get essentially the same information through only one column (which I have suggested, recommended and argued for in the past).
Items missing (Celestial Surgebox and Magical Blastbox) Edit
Can someone add these?
Magical blastbox: Requires - 30 mage, 30 rc, 30 dung. Cost 40K
Celestial Surgebox: Requires - 70 mage, 70 rc, 70 dung. Cost: 65K
Gravite Weapons Edit
Wait, how did the updates make the Gravite weapons weaker?
Token Imposed Level Requirement needs to be standardized Edit
I was looking through the Token Imposed Level Requirements and noticed that the relationship between the token-imposed experience requirement and the token-imposed level requirement is not the same for every item in the list.
Here's an example of what I mean:
Chaotic weapons need 200k tokens, thus 2m XP. Level 80 requires 1,986,068 XP (198,606 tokens), while level 81 requires 2,192,818 XP (219,281 tokens). The token imposed level requirement listed for chaotic weapons is level 80, but you would not necessarily have the correct number of tokens upon attaining level 80. You would probably need to do a few more dungeons before you had the correct number of tokens, even though you were already level 80.
However, if we look at the scroll of rigour, we see that it's token-imposed XP requirement is 1.4m XP, which is between level 76 and 77 (1,336,443 XP; 133,644 tokens, and 1,475,581 XP; 147,558 tokens respectively) and the token-imposed level requirement listed is 77, at which point you will have enough tokens to purchase the scroll as your first reward and still have 7,558 tokens left over! Should the level listed be the higher or the lower of the levels which bracket the token-imposed experience requirement? 18.104.22.168 21:58, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
Token imposed req is now useless Edit
With the new sagas you recieve tokens when replaying them after getting the tomes, so now you can get tokens without getting xp, making all reqs the announced ones.Subrosian1 16:36, April 26, 2012 (UTC)
Which scrolls did I already buy? Edit
For the Scroll of life, Scroll of Cleansing, Scroll of efficiency, there seems to be no immediate way to know if you have bought these or not. If you stop playing for several months and come back, it can be hard to remember such details. The scrolls can be bought numerous times, but only need to be applied once. The game lets you waste thousands of tokens for no reason other than crappy programming. the article should mention this somewhere in bold print, and advise players to always write a NOTE on their account under Notes. I myself know for certain that I have bought 2/3 of these, not sure about the third. The only way to know is to process a large sample of materials and see if I activate the scroll and get the colored text saying I saved an extra resource. Warp9pnt9 05:37, April 27, 2012 (UTC)
Items missing (Celestial Surgebox and Magical Blastbox) Edit
Can someone add these?
Magical blastbox: Requires - 30 mage, 30 rc, 30 dung. Cost 40K