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Urbancowgurl777

Urbancowgurl777 TalkContribs • Last 20 Forum - Main - User talk editsEdit count

In all my time I've spent editing and administrating the RS wiki, I've rarely seen a user more passionate and dedicated than Urbancowgurl777. With nearly ten thousand edits and climbing, Urbancowgurl777 is literally everywhere, doing everything. When a new piece of content is released, she helps create new articles about items, NPCs, locations, etc. She has uploaded hundreds of images, using her excellent OoO skills to improve many images of poor quality. She is often among the first, if not the first, to respond to new Yew Grove discussions. She is always polite and reasonable on peoples' talk pages, promptly responds to messages, and will cheerfully help anyone who needs it.

However, her most important activities with regards to this RfA are her countervandalism and maintenance work. Every day, she's at the forefront of Recent Changes, reverting (and warning!) vandals as quickly as they submit their edits. She works on standardizing some parts of the wiki that are somewhat chaotic, like file names. She is always bugging me on IRC or in-game about a vandal that needs blocking, a page that needs deleting or protecting, or a file that needs merging. If she can't reach me, I'm sure she's pestering someone else.

It was brought to my attention not long ago that we have been slacking a bit in the countervandalism department. I mostly agree; even I haven't watched Recent Changes as much, and we can't rely on suppa (who seems to do the majority of blocking) all the time. When I was asked if I knew of any potential candidates for administrators that specialize in countervandalism, Urbancowgurl777 immediately jumped to my mind. I think someone with her dedication and focus on the site could use a banhammer pretty effectively. At the very least, I would finally get some peace and quiet as she stops making me do stuff every few minutes.

Discuss. --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 20:42, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

I, Urbancowgurl777, accept this nomination for adminship. I have read the policies concerning administrators. I realise that this nomination may fail. If I do get community consensus, I promise not to abuse my tools because I realise that this is a serious offence. If the community finds that I have done so, my tools will be revoked, and in extreme cases I could be given a community ban. Signed, Urbancowgurl777 (talk) 00:31, June 14, 2011 (UTC).

Questions for the nominee

1. What administrative work do you intend to take part in?
Countervandalism and deletion maintenance. That is, reverting vandalism, blocking vandals, deleting pages, protecting pages, merging files, deleting files, protecting files... Urbancowgurl777 (talk) 00:31, June 14, 2011 (UTC)

2. What are your best contributions to the RuneScape Wiki, and why?
I believe every positive edit is a great contribution, but if I were to pick my most constructive, it would probably be between my countervandalism, image work and helping out on new updates (creating new pages, reverting new update vandalism, etc). Urbancowgurl777 (talk) 00:31, June 14, 2011 (UTC)

3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or have other users caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?
Nothing is notable really. I've been in a few arguments over differences in views, but I usually nip things like that in the bud, or agree to disagree. In the future I plan to do the same. Urbancowgurl777 (talk) 00:31, June 14, 2011 (UTC)

Additional questions (asked by the community if necessary)

I see you take a lot of decent images, and I do enjoy looking at them :) What do you think makes you stand out as the average user? Spined helm SpineTalkBook of knowledge 12:20, June 22, 2011 (UTC)

Well, not only do I do image work, but also countervandalism, categorizing, templating, making new pages, helping out on talk pages, tagging, and general editing. The "average user" would do only one or two of what I mentioned above really - people seem to pick and choose how they edit. I'm more of an all-around user, and due to this, I could "use the tools" in multiple areas of the wiki. Urbancowgurl777 (talk) 17:59, June 22, 2011 (UTC)
I would refute that the average user is not a sysop. So what separates you from other sysops, what do you add that is all you? HaloTalk 20:59, June 24, 2011 (UTC)
I wasn't thinking about status when I said "average user". What do I add that is all me? All of my countervandalism and deletion tags - I constantly need to contact someone to block or delete something. Urbancowgurl777 (talk) 21:03, June 24, 2011 (UTC)
There are just a few sysops that aren't/weren't actively involved in vandalism. I'm somewhat concerned about your answers to these questions, you seem to not be taking them very seriously. HaloTalk 00:25, June 25, 2011 (UTC)
Of course I'm taking them seriously... Answering a "why are you good" question isn't exactly easy. How have I displayed not being serious? Urbancowgurl777 (talk) 00:41, June 25, 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps "seriously" was the wrong word. I would have liked a little more detail on the standard 3 asked to everyone, because you basically just gave generic answers that don't tell anyone anything. In my mind this just shows a lack of commitment. Maybe that's not your attitude, but that is what is being communicated. I never asked "why are you good", so much as "what makes you different". HaloTalk 00:59, June 25, 2011 (UTC)
Like I said, I constantly have to find sysops to carry out tasks I'm doing. That makes me different - I hardly ever see anyone have to drag sysops around everywhere to delete/merge/block things/people. Whether it be a multiple vandal attacks or replacing every single forum image with a JPG version, therefore having to delete the old versions. I am "different" because I am always doing something on the wiki that currently requires help. I do not have a lack of commitment, *points to contributions*. If you mean lack of commitment in the answers, they were hard for me to answer as I am not good at answering questions about myself. Especially those which seem to be there to boost one's ego. My best contributions? I've done so many good things for the wiki, how can I possibly measure which is best if countervandalism and images are too generic? Urbancowgurl777 (talk) 01:07, June 25, 2011 (UTC)
Like I said, I constantly have to find sysops to carry out tasks I'm doing. That makes me different... Isn't that what every nomination is for...? Sysops aren't just made sysops for the hell of it, they are given the tools because of the need. Not seeing how that makes you stand out? xScoobsx Talk Contribs 03:34, June 25, 2011 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're insinuating here. Suppa chuppa Talk 03:36, June 25, 2011 (UTC)
She is saying that what makes her stand out is the need of sysop tools, from other sysops, but isn't that what every nominee is being nominated for? For the need of the tools for themselves. xScoobsx Talk Contribs 03:46, June 25, 2011 (UTC)

(tab reset) My understanding of the question is "What makes you stand out from other users who do not have the tools?" It doesn't make much sense to ask what sets her apart from other users who have access to and use the tools. Suppa chuppa Talk 03:47, June 25, 2011 (UTC)

Sure it does. If she's exactly like Sentra, exactly like Ajr, exactly like Suppa...etc, then what's the point in making her a sysop? (I understand that's a hard question, but not impossible, and I think it's still a reasonable one.) I asked her what she brings to the table that is different and she still hasn't really given me a clear answer. But I figured at this point I wasn't gonna get one, so no need to make a big deal and blow something up. HaloTalk 15:14, June 25, 2011 (UTC)
If she's the same as us then she'd make a great sysop, and would be able to help us out :) ajr 15:16, June 25, 2011 (UTC)
From the top of my head, I can't think of any other big image making sysops. What do I bring to the table? I bring to the table not only countervandalism, but fresh, new images. Oftentimes an image has to be replaced with a different version, therefore requiring it to be deleted. Instead of letting it sit for a few hours in the speedy deletion category or hunting down another sysop, I intend to make the speedy deletion category live up to its name. Not only will I be doing this for my own reasons, but for other image editors who need things speedy deleted or merged often. Urbancowgurl777 (talk) 15:27, June 25, 2011 (UTC)

Discussion

  • I don't even need to know whether or not the candidate accepts this to support. They have a clear need for the tools, and will use them well. ajr 20:49, June 13, 2011 (UTC)
  • She told me that she would accept the nomination; she'll do so as soon as she's able to. --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 20:51, June 13, 2011 (UTC)

Support I think most of the blocks I have given in the last three months are based on edits I see Urban reverting, she knows whats what. (even if she does use a noob fm method Lol)--Degenret01 05:52, June 14, 2011 (UTC)

Support - I'm not saying she don't have a use for the tools - she has a great use for the tools, which makes this even better - but sometimes what we need is not necessarily someone who edits a lot or has a use for the tools, but someone who is just calm, sensible, and neutral. I honestly believe Fergie is that person. Matt (t) 06:23, June 14, 2011 (UTC)

Support - *mummblegrummble*So when andorin suggests it she...*mummblegrummble* A perfect candidate for adminship in my opinion.

  • Sensible and calm
  • Active in the YG and other discussions
  • Very active antivandal
  • Demonstrates a clear need/use for the tools
  • Can be easily contacted via private message on the IRC
  • Knows when a username is extremely offensive... *looks at sentra*...
If you can find a good reason why she shouldn't have admin tools, do share... - [Pharos] 06:45, June 14, 2011 (UTC)
Hey, I can't tell when a username is offensive either Lol 222 talk 06:47, June 14, 2011 (UTC)

Support - Shown an excellent need for "the tools" through her counter-vandalism efforts. 222 talk 06:47, June 14, 2011 (UTC)

While she continues to show evidence of future use for "the tools"; after a discussion with a user on IRC, it appears that, based on evidence from chat logs, Urban is not as level-headed as I previously thought, I change to a weak oppose/neutral. 222 talk 09:03, June 24, 2011 (UTC)

Support - Good person, and she obviously would use the tools, even if she can't stand the amount of testosterone in the #wikia-runescape channel. 22px-Logo.svg.pngTyA_userpage_image.png 15:21, June 14, 2011 (UTC)

After a discussion with a few users on IRC, it has been brought to my attention that she is not always as level headed and calm as she appears to be, evidence being in some chat logs I was shown of private messages between other users. 22px-Logo.svg.pngTyA_userpage_image.png 01:18, June 24, 2011 (UTC)
I'd like to specify I don't oppose her gaining the tools, as I know she will use them with appropriately. 22px-Logo.svg.pngTyA_userpage_image.png 03:06, June 26, 2011 (UTC)

Support - Despite my slight inactivity (kinda) on this wiki, I have seen plenty of her work. She is a well-rounded user and would use the tools well.  Tien  15:29, June 14, 2011 (UTC)

support --Iiii I I I 15:43, June 14, 2011 (UTC)

Support - Wait a minute, I thought you were already an admin Omg S T Y G 21:02, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

Strong Support - Since Urban performs so many helpful maintenance tasks each day for the Wiki, I can't believe that she isn't already an admin. We need to fix this immediately, methinks. Smile http://s602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/Twigy_tag1/Sullivan-1.jpg N7 Elite (Ready to talk now?) 17:29, June 16, 2011 (UTC)

Support - Urban has shown considerable maturity, excellent communication skills, sound judgement, and a distinct use for the tools. The wiki will benefit with her as an administrator. --Aburnett(Talk) 00:12, June 17, 2011 (UTC)

Strong support - Fridge is a top-tier user who knows what's good for the wiki. Ardougne cloak 4 Raging Bull Talk 17:57, June 17, 2011 (UTC)

Support - Fergie is a great candidate for an admin: she is mature, level-headed, quick at counter-vandalism, and a nice person to talk to. She also has a constant use for the tools. she should join the IRC though ;) ɳex undique 17:13, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

i c wat u did thar, and I agree. ^_^ Matt (t) 10:39, June 19, 2011 (UTC)

Support - Although I would rather be neutral, there's too much on the support side of the scale for me to say so or to oppose at all. While I'm not sure if you're fully ready for adminship, there's no reason not to oppose or stay neutral that I can think of. Honour Coelacanth0794 Talk Square sandwich 15:36, June 19, 2011 (UTC)

So your reasoning for supporting is that other people are supporting? That makes no sense. bad_fetustalk 17:12, June 19, 2011 (UTC)
Peer pressure Ring of kinship Ciphrius Kane Dungeoneering cape (t) 17:19, June 19, 2011 (UTC)
I could be saying the same thing to your statement, chess. I was origionally going to quote what Liquid said on Rsa's RFA, but I felt more strongly to support. But in essence, it's how I feel. Honour Coelacanth0794 Talk Square sandwich 17:26, June 19, 2011 (UTC)

Support - You've really improved in recent months. Not 100% sure if you're ready but we won't know unless we let you try Ring of kinship Ciphrius Kane Dungeoneering cape (t) 17:19, June 19, 2011 (UTC)

After reading some of the evidence about your ability to stay calm, I am switching to neutral, as I cannot oppose as I have not seen it first hand but the evidence means I can no longer support Ring of kinship Ciphrius Kane Dungeoneering cape (t) 21:15, June 24, 2011 (UTC)

Support - Per Fergie's answer above to my question. Good luck, Fergie :D --Spined helm SpineTalkBook of knowledge 20:58, June 29, 2011 (UTC)

Supportneutral - Active antivandal, and a nice person overall. I think Fergie would be a good admin, and make good use of the tools. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 11:20, June 22, 2011 (UTC)

I have reconsidered this, and I do indeed see those things cook mentions, also on the wiki. For example when Tentacle was released, and Fergie saw she didn't wear any clothes. After I uploaded an image of Tentacle, she posted this on my talk page. After I replied she said "It'd be best if you didn't argue with me on this.". This is not what I expect of admins, as they should always be open to discussion, and especially not become angry at someone who is just uploading a completely normal image of something Jagex released. I also see users below saying those examples Cook gave are not from the wiki, and there are no examples of her doing anything wrong or immature on the wiki, but obviously there is. I'm sorry, but I don't want admins to become angry at others at all, especially not as easily as just one image upload. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 01:32, June 27, 2011 (UTC)
I was talking about the other version of the image, which was a zoomed-in image of her breasts, clearly uploaded it just to show off that. The image was called "Wat" or something. When it was deleted, he kept reuploading it and replacing your image on Tentacle's page with his. Since he finally gave up and it was deleted, I said we didn't have to talk about it anymore, and what was done was done, since it was deleted.. Urbancowgurl777 (talk) 01:53, June 27, 2011 (UTC)
You are talking about Battlebunny0 here, I assume. As far as I can see, he added the image to the Deadliest Catch article a couple of times indeed, and once to the Tentacle article. Also, he uploaded the image only once after it got moved to the new filename, probably because he couldn't find the image anymore. Anyway, even though someone adds something a lot, or whatever else happens, I don't think there is ever a reason for admins to become angry at all. JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 02:31, June 27, 2011 (UTC)

Support - Urban does work diligently to cleanse the wiki just as those of yesteryear did previously. As much as I don't think we need another counter-vandal administrator, if what the above stays true, then I would plan on seeing Urban overtake those like Suppa for the block log in the weeks to come. Not that I am against the removal of counter-vandalism, but one would like to see more editors that know how to work in the MediaWiki namespace. Ryan PM 13:29, June 22, 2011 (UTC)

Neutral - Yes, Fergie has a high edit count, she's a really cheerful person, she's been lurking around here for a long time, and she would benefit from accessing the blocking tool, but I have slight doubts over whether she needs tools besides that. I do think she's a great countervandal, but I don't think that's quite enough to merit a sysopping. Real Mad 16:14, June 22, 2011 (UTC)

Strong oppose - She indeed could use the tools as mentioned multiple times above, but I do not trust her with the tools. Unlike other people above, I disagree that she is mature, as I've seen her turn a simple disagreement into ad hominem before. That certainly does not show maturity. She also can sometimes get too emotional with things, which also does not show maturity. I oppose, as lack of maturity and an antivandal sysop make a horrible combination. bad_fetustalk 16:33, June 22, 2011 (UTC)

Let's have some evidence, because the person you're describing isn't the person I know. Ardougne cloak 4 Raging Bull Talk 17:43, June 22, 2011 (UTC)
Links or it never happened broMatt (t) 06:55, June 23, 2011 (UTC)

Strong Support - Fergie is hands down the most hardworking, calm, and mature person I have encountered on this wiki. There is nobody else on this wiki I would trust with sysop tools as much as I would with Fergles.   Swizz Talk   Events!   17:50, June 22, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - I'm withdrawing my comments. Matt (t) 22:06, June 23, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - I can't believe I'm writing this about Fergie. Fergie has always been so sensible. So calm. So mature. And she's always had such a good use for the tools. I'm not ashamed to say that I used to look up to Fergie. When I saw this rfa, I jumped in and supported right off the bat.

But alas, there was so little I actually knew.

I have seen various logs of discussions with Fergie in the IRC. I was shocked by her behaviour in comparison to what I previously knew of her. I wholeheartedly agree with the points Chess has made and I commend him for making them in the first place.

In one log I saw, she was going off about Rsa's RFA. She said that she had been here longer and had more edits than Rsa, and was practically raging about Rsa getting nommed and not her.

Another log I saw she was getting upset about how she had a couple of opposes on her RFA and that it's "not perfect" and that she was unliked. She was over-exageerating this completely.

I have not seen much more, but I find it easily possible for other incidents that Chess touched on to have arised.

Fergie is a great editor. She does practically everything I can think of, from general editing to counter-vandalism to image making and she's great at it, but I do believe that her personality and maturity does have problems. What I have seen is absolutely not the behaviour I want to see from an administrator.

Based on these points, I'm opposing.

Matt (t) 09:07, June 24, 2011 (UTC)

I'm changing my position to Weak oppose. I do feel that actions taken on IRC by Fergie should be comepletely relevant to this discussion, but I do believe, as I stated, that Fergie is a great editor and that she is one of the best candidates right now. However, I still believe that the way a sysop acts and how they deal with problems (ie., maturity) should be the biggest factor when giving a user the rights in question. Matt (t) 22:14, June 24, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - Sorry to have to do this especially at the last minute, but I don't think the time is right for you to become a sysop. You're by far one of the best countervandals and image-makers on the wiki, but use of sysop tools or general wiki achievement is not what concerns me. Based on some of your private chats with me12 I don't think you react well at all to stressful situations. As a sysop you need to not only be in control of this situations all the time, but there are a lot more of them. I have other logs of you complaining about how useless you are, complaining about drama (and then getting involved in it) and other things that are not helpful to your candidacy. I'm sorry for the betrayal of privacy, but I think that the community's right to know all the facts should come first. ʞooɔ 09:28, June 24, 2011 (UTC)

Based on some of your private chats with me 1 people might have doubts about whether you can get on with your fellow wiki users. Does that mean that you go around acting on your private feelings? Of course it doesn't. In fact, a later chat 2 shows that you put whatever you personally feel to one side when you have a job to do, as is right and proper. As Sir Bernard Woolley says, it's a matter of hats. You seem to be able to wear the right one at the right time, and it stands to reason that others can too. Ardougne cloak 4 Raging Bull Talk 14:12, June 24, 2011 (UTC)
The examples you have given, and the examples cook has given are completely different. On cook's first example, you see fergie getting mad, because rsa gets sysopped before her, which, clearly does not show maturity. On the other hand, Cook complains about Sentra's sysopship saying that he is not ready, which is a valid reason. On cook's second example, fergie gets mad because she got opposed by someone. There have been unsuccessful RfA's in the past simply because the nominee tried to defend themselves to clarify a point; 'because you should be ready to accept those if you are doing a RfA.' Well, she clearly couldn't handle an oppose. Now, I have no idea why your second example is supposed to show immature behaviour or anything similar, so I can't really respond to that.bad_fetustalk 17:54, June 24, 2011 (UTC)
Oh, I got your point now, as you've explained it to me on the IRC. Anyways, my point still stands. Your first example of Cook only shows that he didn't believe sentra was ready for adminship, which is acceptable. Cook's examples show immaturity. bad_fetustalk 18:16, June 24, 2011 (UTC)
It doesn't matter what cook said, it's not his RfA and is thus completely irrelevant. Smuff [The cake is a lie] 19:37, June 24, 2011 (UTC)
I think a main difference between what you posted and what I posted is that my complaints usually have action attached to them; fergie's are generally just her being mad about something. From all my experience with fergie in IRC, I have never seen her put aside her feelings in a way that you say I did in your second log. Beyond this, what she says shows other problems. Her need for recognition is so great that she finds it necessary to extol her own virtues in comparison to someone else who is doing an RfA. The second one shows that she can't take a single oppose on her RfA (which is of course supposed to test someone's mettle) without taking it as a personal attack and thinking that she's "unliked". On the other hand, what you posted about me simply showed that I thought Chaos Monk's arguments regarding your thread made no sense, and that I was exploring a desysop thread for Sentra. ʞooɔ 20:14, June 25, 2011 (UTC)ʞooɔ 20:19, June 24, 2011 (UTC)
Neutral - While I still have issues about what I posted earlier, I think I may be over-scrutinizing. I think you'll make a fine sysop if you stay out of drama and the like. ʞooɔ 22:04, June 24, 2011 (UTC)
I am withdrawing my comments and request they not be used as evidence. ʞooɔ 22:48, July 1, 2011 (UTC)

To clarify my support, I do not believe that this whole thing of her letting her guard down on the IRC is any reason to oppose. Who doesn't act a bit more relaxed on the IRC? ajr 14:17, June 24, 2011 (UTC)

There's a difference between being relaxed and what she's done. She has shown a lack of control in serious situations without any trace of humor or reason to believe that those are not her true feelings about what she's talking about. ʞooɔ 20:19, June 24, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - Ajr is right. Those of you who are opposing this RfA because of incidents on IRC would do well to provide examples of poor behavior on Fergie's part on the wiki. Her words in public channels and private conversations should have no bearing on her actions on the wiki. --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 18:44, June 24, 2011 (UTC)

Examples of wiki misbehavior should not be necessary to show that there is a problem; when she is having a serious talk about something related to the wiki in a way that makes me question her judgment, I consider it to be completely relevant. As for RS:NOT#OFFSITE plus the possible invasion of privacy, Caleb made a point after closing Sentra's RfA that accusations made with evidence have much more weight than those made without evidence or with only allusions to some sort of evidence. Do I feel bad about betraying my friend's privacy? Yes. But I think it was necessary. ʞooɔ 20:19, June 24, 2011 (UTC)

Strong Oppose - I've been giving this one some thought. I don't think you're a bad editor, but I don't think you're ready to be a sysop. Based on the responses that you have given others, you have shown that you do have a bit of an immaturity issue. Looking here we see that you might actually have a legitimate use for the deletion tool. However, at this point in time, I don't think we have a huge need for someone else with tools who isn't ready for the maturity aspect of being a sysop. I hope you understand that this isn't a personal attack, but just my advice saying that I really don't think you are ready for it. I was the SAME way, and I'm so glad I failed the rfas that I did. (I was pissed then, but understanding comes with time). HaloTalk 21:45, June 24, 2011 (UTC)

Strong Support - I try not to get too involved in wiki business, but here's one of those times where I felt I need to step in. Fergie is a great antivandal on the wiki, and has a near constant use of the tools. The amazing amount of suppport up until Chess' comment is entirely what Fergie deserves.

On the other hand, the huge amount of Opposes afterwards disappoint me. Never once have ANY of you shown a SINGLE example of PUBLIC conversation that proves Fergie to be immature. I'm sorry, but I will not consider your private conversations with someone as evidence of immaturity. EVERY SINGLE PERSON would say stuff in private conversations that they wouldn't say in public conversations. Leave what's private, private.

Chess, your example of her being unable to handle an oppose and there being unsuccessful RfAs because the nominee tried to defend themselves, they are COMPLETELY different. Fergie has stayed entirely out of this. She discussed it IN PRIVATE with someone, and hasn't gone off showing immaturity at ANY point on this page.

Everyone who seems to be making a big deal over small comments from IRC, the best advice I can give is that adminship is NOT A BIG DEAL. There is no reason to expect that Fergie will be unable to handle herself with it, and there are MANY reasons that she would be using it. Therefore, I support. Grim reaper hood Ben RyfosTalk 22:52, June 24, 2011 (UTC)

Small comments that reflect her attitude. We aren't saying she shouldn't be a sysop, we are just saying that she'll make a much better sysop in the future, and that she needs some extra time. She might make a good sysop now, but she'll make a great sysop given the chance to gain a little more maturity before being put under a lot of pressure. HaloTalk 00:18, June 25, 2011 (UTC)
Also-you can't just disqualify things because they were said in private. They were still said, which is still a reflection of her character. Private things generally show someones attitude even better than public logs. HaloTalk 15:28, June 25, 2011 (UTC)

Support - I believe that Urbancowgurl777 will be able to use admin tools to their full extent, and from what I know of her, she's a friendly person who's clear intent is to help. Dragon 2h sword oldCallofduty4 Talk 02:19, June 25, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - Per Cook, and I also felt as though she was talking down to me here: User_talk:XScoobsx#Reverting There is no harm in what I was doing, but she made me feel as though my discretion was not sufficient enough, and what she said was the right thing and that was the end of it. ...but if I revert an edit and don't leave the IP a message, I don't deem it worthy of a message. I also disagree with a lot of things she stated, but I did not wish to push the conversation further into a bigger argument. xScoobsx Talk Contribs 03:30, June 25, 2011 (UTC)

Except that she was correct, and I quite frankly cannot see how her attitude is possibly condesending. From my perspective, it looks like she was specifically going out of her way to be nice, polite and kind. I do, however, see you overreacting there, and then opposing for..... no good reason here now. But, of course, that is your choice. Also, since when does one incident define how well someone will be an admin, whether or not it was recent? Everyone makes mistakes, even us speshul admins... ajr 02:47, June 26, 2011 (UTC)
I don't believe there is a correct "way" to do it. There is no harm in leaving a message for the IP about their test edit. But this is not the place to discuss such a thing. You may see it differently, I don't know your relationship with her that may bias your outlook, but as the receiver of her messages I felt as I described above. Overreacting? I was just defending my side and why I did what I did, I didn't know I wasn't allowed to defend myself. I am not opposing just over this incident, that is why I initially said "Per Cook,...". Yes, everyone does make mistakes, but mainly what gets me is her attitude that is shown in the IRC chat. To me she is not displaying the true desire one should have to become a sysop. She looks at it as though it is a "status" and something other than a few extra tools. xScoobsx Talk Contribs 06:33, June 26, 2011 (UTC)

Support - She knows how to use the tools correctly, and I very highly doubt she would abuse them. So what if she has said a few things in private chat, she has never acted like that in public, and I very highly doubt she would. As Cod4 said she's a friendly person who's clear intent is to help. Everything else I have to say was said by Ryfos. Hunter cape (t) Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask 03:43, June 25, 2011 (UTC)

It's not necessarily just about how you act in public. It's your attitude that's important. If you attitude is negative, that's going to affect everything. She seems a little too focused on what other people think of her, and that will influence her attitude negatively. I don't think anyone here is arguing her ability to use the tools correctly. HaloTalk 15:11, June 25, 2011 (UTC)
If people agree that she will use the tools correctly and she acts mature when needed, what is the problem with giving her the tools? Hunter cape (t) Sentra246Blue hallowe'en mask 00:29, June 26, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - Per Scoobs. Real Mad 15:32, June 25, 2011 (UTC)

Weak Oppose - Whilst Fergie seems like a very nice person, I don't know anyone who can actually say they've seen her act under pressure. Because we can't magically materialise evidence of how she acts on the wiki, I have to go by IRC logs. Knowing cook there's not a chance these were fabricated and so regretfully I'm going to have to go by gut instinct and oppose. Whilst few admins do image work, saying that you can add transparency to an image doesn't mean you have an automatic right to the tools. Smuff [The cake is a lie] 23:10, June 25, 2011 (UTC)

Regardless of image work, she still is active in countervandalism - lack of a use for the tools should not come into play here. ajr 02:02, June 26, 2011 (UTC)
Assuming that Fergie will act poorly on the wiki without any substantial evidence is a violation of RuneScape:Assume good faith. --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 02:53, June 26, 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, you're wrong. In any RfA, the burden of proof is upon the supporters to show that a person can be trusted and is mature. RS:AGF applies almost exclusively to newer editors and vandalism.There should be no assumption of good faith in something like this, and you cannot possibly stretch the "spirit of the policy" to say that we should support RfAs blindly because there is no evidence to the contrary. Please read the policy instead of basing your comment solely on its name. ʞooɔ 03:57, June 26, 2011 (UTC)
I feel you're wrong in this case. Supporters should be proving a need for the tools, Opposers should be proving why they should not be given out. AGF doesn't just apply to new editors, it applies to everywhere. You're all assuming Fergie will misuse the tools, based on evidence from a private conversation, which is NOTHING like the Fergie that edits this wiki, and therefore, I cannot in good faith use that as evidence that she will misuse the tools. Until you can provide evidence FROM THE WIKI that proves that she is unqualified, then I feel those opposing based on that don't truly understand the spirit of this wiki. Grim reaper hood Ben RyfosTalk 04:20, June 26, 2011 (UTC)
Well said. There is a gap between what someone says and what someone does. If someone produced a log of a private IRC conversation wherein I had raged hard about something on-site that had happened in the past, it wouldn't change the fact that I've been a capable administrator. It wouldn't suddenly mean that I'd been misusing my sysop tools. What Fergie says in private conversations does not necessarily imply anything about the actions she takes on this wiki. It's necessary to understand the gap between these two things unless you want to run afoul of AGF... which is relevant here because it applies to all editors and because people are assuming that Fergie will misuse admin tools. --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 04:28, June 26, 2011 (UTC)
I never disputed that there is a gap between actions and words, so you can stop repeating that. I never claimed that she would do anything unruly to Chess. I am saying that her words are the problem. If she can't take a single oppose on her RfA without moaning about how it's a personal attack and that everyone hates her, it shows some emotional instability that I am not okay with. Complaining about not getting recognized? That makes me think that she sees adminship as some sort of a reward for being on the wiki a long time. Examples of wiki misbehavior are not necessary to show that someone has a poor attitude or is immature; when they say things like that anywhere, it becomes an issue for me. As for AGF, I believe you have a thorough misunderstanding of the policy. If some random person does an RfA, I am simply not going to support them until I have evidence to the contrary; I will look at their contribs and actions on the wiki and elsewhere, and if I do not find that they have done enough, I will not support them. Even if there is no evidence that they have done good, I will assume that they should not be an admin until my research shows otherwise. Is that assuming bad faith? No. It's what we all do. ʞooɔ 04:48, June 26, 2011 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Ryfos, I have to agree with your first sentence, however the problem is, what do we do when we're stuck in the grey area? When the supporting side nor the opposing side can convincingly prove why the subject of the RfA will use or not use the tools properly. That's when the status quo remains, in this case, the subject will not receive the tools. I think that may be the case here, but obviously I have no say in the final decision, it is all up to the bureaucrat of course. 222 talk 04:50, June 26, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - A picture of words is worth more than a thousand words.   Thunderous My WallpapersYk'Lagor the Thunderous 04:01, June 26, 2011 (UTC)

What does this even mean? --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 04:10, June 26, 2011 (UTC)
I don't get this. ʞooɔ 04:48, June 26, 2011 (UTC)
lolwut Matt (t) 05:57, June 26, 2011 (UTC)
Erm, I ment a copypasta of words lol, after reading comments and the logs I have been show I was missleaded, damn advertisers!   Thunderous My WallpapersYk'Lagor the Thunderous 06:56, June 26, 2011 (UTC)
So you're saying you're opposing because of the logs I posted? Still confused. ʞooɔ 07:18, June 26, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - Though I think that you are by far one of the best Anti-Vandals, Image Editor/Creators, and have a great personality, I don't quite think that you are ready for something like this, just as I am not ready for it. I understand that you might deserve it, but that is different from earning it. You have an incredibly high editcount, all productive edits to the wiki, and marvelous images, but after reading the two links given by Cook, I understand why many oppose. You, as I, need to work on your state of mind in stressful situations. I fly off the handle quickly in some cases, as do you. That is pretty much the only thing I can see for you to work on before I would support you, but that is by far both the hardest and most important part of everything you'd need to be a successful sysop. Raging in stress can result in all sorts of bad things, not only for you, but for everyone else that gets pulled in to the muck because of it. If things like the above linked were to stop happening, and you were able to show more control over your behaviour in high-stress or high-tension situations, I would definately give you my full support for you becoming a sysop. Adam SavageSpeech cursor 04:45, June 26, 2011 (UTC)

The problem with your argument is that you want her to demonstrate better control of herself in stressful situations. As I and others have pointed out countless times, there are no examples of her raging on the wiki. So in order for her to be in the sorts of stressful situations that you probably have in mind (blocks, closing discussions), she has to be a sysop. This is why I think we should trust her and give her a chance; plus, any blatant abuses of her power will be a lot easier to deal with than this entire RfA has been. --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 05:32, June 26, 2011 (UTC)

:Neutral - Alright. I have to say that, after getting both sides of this discussion, I have to put my opinion for this as neutral. I can see why you'd make a fantastic sysop, and that you have some things you need to work on. I'm fine with you becoming a sysop all in all, though. Adam SavageSpeech cursor 05:38, June 26, 2011 (UTC) Oppose - As per my first post. Though I think that you are by far one of the best Anti-Vandals, Image Editor/Creators, and have a great personality, I don't quite think that you are ready for something like this, just as I am not ready for it. I understand that you might deserve it, but that is different from earning it. You have an incredibly high editcount, all productive edits to the wiki, and marvelous images, but after reading the two links given by Cook, I understand why many oppose. You, as I, need to work on your state of mind in stressful situations. I fly off the handle quickly in some cases, as do you. That is pretty much the only thing I can see for you to work on before I would support you, but that is by far both the hardest and most important part of everything you'd need to be a successful sysop. Raging in stress can result in all sorts of bad things, not only for you, but for everyone else that gets pulled in to the muck because of it. If things like the above linked were to stop happening, and you were able to show more control over your behaviour in high-stress or high-tension situations, I would definately give you my full support for you becoming a sysop. Adam SavageSpeech cursor 05:59, June 26, 2011 (UTC)

She has shown nothing but excellent control over high stress situations! When, I ask, did she start complaining on-wiki or even on a public IRC channel about what was going on? The fact that she was able to control herself and not say anything, even in the midst of these poorly thought-through opposes proves here maturity and self control. ajr 18:08, June 30, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - After reading all of the edits after my initial support of Urban, it has come to my attention that there are several matters to be pursued. First and foremost, despite what one or a group of users post, no one person that opposes means everyone wants to bar the sysop group right from you. I didn't do an RfA until a few months back because I didn't think anyone would support me. However I did not care whether someone who joined the wiki after me would receive the rights before me.

There is no statement on this wiki that shows seniority has an advantage over another. Therefore a non-veteran user should not be prevented from a request of these rights. I know that I act differently in IRC and especially with friends I've known for years. Not everyone has the same game-face or hat. As long as one behavior does not migrate into the other, I would expect nothing to change in Urban's edits here.

When I initially saw this request, I did not comment on it as I had yet to watch the actions performed by Urban. When it did come time to post, I was intending to go neutral as I usually do in requests. Urban has shown maturity on this wiki, has kept emotions to the side for the betterment of the wiki, and continues to volunteer her time for the wiki at large.

I fail to see where y'all came off as a mass mob and forked over private conversations. As long as they are off wiki, I can care less. Ryan PM 06:14, June 26, 2011 (UTC)

I think the main difference between my view and yours (and most of the supporters) is that I think that attitude off the wiki (but related to it, such as in the IRC or in-game) should at least play some role in assessment of a user during an RfA. You seem to think that only what goes on within the confines of runescape.wikia.com should count, but I think that someone's mindset should be evaluated in any locations that relate to the wiki. RS:NOT#OFFSITE says that "References to outside discussion that may be relevant in an on-site discussion are acceptable, but they may not be used as the basis for a consensus or decision by themselves." I am referencing the logs that I posted in my argument to show that she does not have the attitude that I expect in a sysop, and I certainly think that they are allowable and valid. ʞooɔ 07:18, June 26, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - Lack of maturity equals lack of support from me. 'Nuff said. Andrew talk 17:58, June 26, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - "Should they have images that were solely uploaded to show the nudity aspect of the quest? No." So we shouldn't upload the images the way Jagex made them? Oh hun, you're not ready to be with the big guys... -- CakeMixwhut? 01:38, June 27, 2011 (UTC)

Comment/Question - I don't really understand what's going on here. Several people have changed to oppose, but have stated they wouldn't oppose me using the tools...? I think people are more, shocked(?) that I have feelings that I expressed to someone privately? Urbancowgurl777 (talk) 02:01, June 27, 2011 (UTC)

Comment. I wasn't going to say this, because I had hoped that I wouldn't need to. But I have a confession to make - believe it or not, I'm not perfect. But I do have access to sysop tools here, because I passed an RfA in which the community decided that, despite my mistakes in the past, my actions at the time displayed the maturity required for administrative rights. However, I'm not perfect, nor are any of our administrators here, and I think that it is completely rediculous to assume that users must be perfect to recieve the tools. Let's dig in, shall we?

First off, it's been said that the fact that the candidate thinks and does two different things is a bad thing, something which could cause a problem in a stressful situation. Believe it or not, we are all subject to this. For example, right now I am thinking that everyone who is opposing this request is stupid and backward, and really doesn't understand what adminship is about. However, I'm not going to run around saying that, because that is undiplomatic and wrong. Every day in life we think things and do different things - it isn't a bad thing, it is an aspect of humanity. Likewise, when this fine candidate told someone who she thought to be a friend her personal feelings, she was not displaying immaturity, she was being human, not displaying immaturity.

Now, to prove that me and her are not the only people who do this, I've gone and asked four adults if they ever think and do different things, and if they ever confide their thoughts with someone they trust. The results are surprising - 100% of them do! Could it not then be reasonably assumed that the candidate is, then, not acting out of immaturity, but rather acting as any human does - even my grandpa?

We should not be focussing on private IRC logs that were released without both party's consent here people, we should be judging this candidate per their excellent contributions to this wiki. And my goodness, if we judge by that standard this exceptional, level-headed (when it counts) user surpasses most people, including me. Despite being obiously inclined to act irrationally and with a great level of immaturity as the logs suggest, the candidate has been able to put that aside and react to situations in a mature and level-headed way.

On that note, I'd also like to say that I quite often talk to users in private about issues on wiki(s). I regularly complain about some new policy which I consider to be stupid, whine about some user's actions, and I assume that the users who I think that I trust will not go and reveal these logs. I'm confiding my personal feelings with them, and I personally see the revealing of these logs as a significant breech of trust, one which I hope that Cook will apologize for and try to make up. That's his choice, though, not mine.

Let's not blame her for being human. Everyone says and does different things, even those over the age of 60. People are also social animals, we like talking (or typing), and seeing if anyone else shares our opinion. In real life, this happens with spouses, friends, sisters, caeks, brothers, etc. On the internet, this happens between two users who trust eachother as much as you can trust someone who you've never met before. It isn't what we think that defines us, it's how we act on those thoughts. If anyone has an example of the candidate showing immaturity in on-wiki actions, then please, present that evidence. I'd like to request that the closing bureaucrat extend this nomination for another week, and allow some people to think about both sides of this story. Have a great day, everyone. ajr 04:44, June 27, 2011 (UTC)

That is definitely something to think about. 22px-Logo.svg.pngTyA_userpage_image.png 04:50, June 27, 2011 (UTC)
"If anyone has an example of the candidate showing immaturity in on-wiki actions, then please, present that evidence." I did link to an on-wiki action above, if you want to see those... JOEYTJE50TALKpull my finger 05:08, June 27, 2011 (UTC)
What you listed is by no means grounds for opposing. ajr 05:10, June 27, 2011 (UTC)

Notice of intent - Due to the recent spike in activity as well as the current state of the discussion, the deadline for this nomination will be extended for another week to 4 July 2011. C.ChiamTalk 11:12, June 27, 2011 (UTC)

Support - After reading Ajr's fortress of text above, what I'm about to say is pretty much a mirror of that. Private conversations are irrelevant to how a person behaves, if she's going to be opposed for having a few private conversations, go ahead and derank every single sysop and crat on the wiki. I guarantee you, that EVERY single sysop and previous RfA candidates on this wiki, when they went through their results to see how people supported and opposed, they would of sat there thinking that the people who opposed are (Insert numerous vulgars here). We are all human, we all have opinions on everything, and as per above again, we've had sysops with significantly more instability in the attitude sector pass their RfA. Down to the REAL point of a sysop, she's gonna use the tools for the good of the wiki, she's not going to ban people just for supporting another person's RfA or ban people for opposing anything else she has in the future... She know's what she's doing, and sadly enough, someone betrayed her trust and decided to post those private conversations, which in all sense, is truly irrelevant to what she can bring to the wiki. Broav pet Rhys Talk Completionist cape 17:07, June 27, 2011 (UTC)

Arbitrary section break

Oppose/Pending - From reading the discussion, I've seen that there is some dirty underground work of whom you are the mastermind. I never really saw you to be the sort of that prestigious admin-worthy type, and, for now, I'll have to oppose this. I put pending because I feel you can put this behind you and move in the right direction. --クールネシトーク 10:44, June 28, 2011 (UTC)

"Dirty underground work?" "Mastermind?" --Andorin (Talk) (Contribs) 23:54, June 28, 2011 (UTC)
Yea, what are you smoking (and where can I get some)? ajr 20:43, June 29, 2011 (UTC)

Support - Alright, I was originally going to stay out of the discussion, but I might as well put forth my thoughts on the matter. It is undeniable that Fergie has presented a clear use for the tools. She does a large amount of counter-vandalism work and even larger amount of maintenance. As such, I believe that she would make good use of the ability to block vandals and delete pages. Several people have claimed that she does not understand the nature of the sysop "position" or that she might not be able to put aside her personal feelings when carrying out certain tasks. While I do agree that she is an emotional person, she seems to either keep a cool head when the necessity arises or stay out of such situations when they heat up too much. Personally, I don't really see a problem with this. One's thoughts should not highly matter over actions if the actions are innocent. Basically, any "underlying motives" that are present in this request are not so great that they should hinder the passing of this RfA. I feel that the positive impact that she would have as an administrator is great enough to allow for this request to go through. Anyway, just my thoughts from watching this RfA progress. Suppa chuppa Talk 22:24, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

Support - Per Ajr's textwall and Suppa. I don't really have anything to add to that. Quest Gaz Lloyd 7:^]Events!99s 23:31, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

Closed - There is no consensus to sysop Urbancowgurl777 at this time. C.ChiamTalk 11:08, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

Not even sure what to put here Hello, to those who know me, and to those who don't. I came here today at the request of several users who were concerned about the outcome of an RFA. I trust you all, as I wish you all would trust each other, Caleb included. Yet I look at the RFA, and I can't help but realize that the opposition seems trivial at best. We're not choosing an overseer. We are entrusting somebody with tools they have shown a clear need and use for. Now, having read this thing over several times, including taking an additional lunch at work today to read it over a final time, I have come to my own conclusion. This conclusion, which Caleb has already stated he didn't mind if it was different, is that Urbancowgurl777 has demonstrated a use for the tools, and is trusted by community members as well as myself to not abuse them. I ask everyone, before you bombard my talk page, to take a quick read as I explain my finding here. We are all different, every one of it. It makes us all unique. Administrators are the same, each doing different tasks, making them all unique. This administrator is no different. Has she made some mistakes? Yes. Has every single person who read and/or responded to this? Yes. Have we learned? I sure to God hope so. The truth is, Fergie is not the only administrator around, and if she has questions or someone questions her judgement, there are plenty of us to ask a second opinion to. So please, do not use this as a precedent, but I would like to be the first to say to you Urban: "Welcome to the cabal." (Read an old talk page archive of mine if you get upset at that, you'll find out what I mean.) It is with this that I will be granting Urbancowgurl777 administrator tools, and kindly ask everyone to go read over Jimbo's comment about adminship while you have a second. Karlis (talk) (contribs)

01:16, July 14, 2011 (UTC)

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