Forum:PvM Strategy Guides Rework

Forums: Yew Grove > PvM Strategy Guides Rework

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This thread was archived on 12 June 2017 by Liquidhelium.

Okay hello guys. I am TIMMMO (previously named Timothylam92) and I was the guy who proposed the Shop Pages Reworking Project back in 2012 (though I didn't finish the mess I started, sorry guys). After a huge break from both RS and wiki, I am up to something big again and would like to ask for advice.

PvM Strategy Guides Rework

Introduction

Currently, the strategy guides for various bosses/monsters are quite inconsistent and not really informative - at least in my point of view as a beginner in general PvM. Therefore, I'd like to do some cleanup and formatting, making the strategy guides to be easy to read, removing unnecessary contents in the meantime.

Here are some problems I've found in current guides:

Inconsistent gear setup (Recommended equipment template in 1 vs 2 - Separate each style or combine them?)
- With/Without inventory icon? (Both seen in 1)
Missing information (e.g. Recommended inventory, Suggested levels)
Still need action bar analysis? (e.g. 1, 2)

Check out sample rework HERE.

Disclaimer: The following is just a crude reworked sample of mine. Feel free to comment what to keep and what to improve ;)

Proposed Guidelines

Aim
In my opinion, the strategy page should be a concise summary on how to effectively kill the monster. Therefore, information that doesn't help with that (e.g. Reasons to be killed for, special drops) should be put in the mainpage instead.

Sections to be included

Getting to there
- Only include the commonly used/effective methods
- State the benefits if choosing that site
Suggested levels
Recommended equipment & Inventory setup
- By the <tabber> function to split to three combat styles
- With combat style-related tips
Combat breakdown (If applicable)
- i.e. How many phases, what attacks
Fighting strategy & tips

Discussion

Comment - Comment, criticize and say whatever you think of it please -- TIMMMO ⁺⁺^{Discuss Sign} 09:52, May 31, 2017 (UTC)

Comment - Okay, first "information that doesn't help with that (e.g. Reasons to be killed for, special drops) should be put in the mainpage" very much so. These should be something you can glance at on one tab while fighting, preferable without scrolling. Also I never did like the approach of listing five bits of equipment in (apparently) increasing order of uselessness. After the first couple of items that list is too variable depending on style and skill. I'd much prefer a minimum and ideal piece of equipment in each slot, with similar-tier suggestions for the minimum. MarshP 14:28, June 1, 2017 (UTC)

Comment - I would nix the recommended equipment table altogether. If some type of gear is particularly useful, say that in prose, but currently all those tables are "use level 92 gear otherwise 90 otherwise 85 otherwise 80 and the recommendations end here", which covers about 0.1% of players and does not take into account personal preferences etc. Fsw e1 15:14, June 1, 2017 (UTC)

Comment - I've looked at this myself recently. I think the best idea would be to get rid of the equipment sections and action bars altogether, and instead create a (quite long) comprehensive article on various gear to use (something like [[Combat/Recommended equipment]]?). This way the base article can be amended with new updates, instead of manually updating each strategy page. If any specific niche gear is recommended or required that isn't displayed in the recommended equipment page, the strategy page can specify as such and explain it. I'm up for working on this article if anyone wants to join. I've the start of base page at User:Saucy_bants/Sandbox2 if anyone wants to assist.

Regarding action bars I think that a link to Revolution/Bars is sufficient for each page, and any other niche abilities can be specified in the strategy guide.

I also think that greater integration with money making guides would be useful for the strategy pages. Saucy bants (talk) 00:26, June 2, 2017 (UTC)

Comment - Okay, so it seems the equipment table is something people want to be changed - I particularly like the idea of a single page for recommended equipment. Any idea from others?

And I guess the main function of strategy page would become how to tackle with the monster's mechanics or tricks? -- TIMMMO ⁺⁺^{Discuss Sign} 13:12, June 3, 2017 (UTC)

Comment - I am not great at PvM so can't give much helpful feedback. Looking over your example I would say one thing to change would be to make the locations section into a table. Could have a column for the location name and another for how to get there. I sent out a tweet about this to try and get some more comments. IsobelJ 18:30, June 3, 2017 (UTC)

Good idea, will include them in the page --

TIMMMO

^{Discuss Sign} 15:16, June 6, 2017 (UTC)

Comment - I've outlined a standard equipment table at User:Saucy_bants/Slayer/Gear, please criticize the individual items. Will write up some text soon on why they are recommended. Saucy bants (talk) 01:54, June 4, 2017 (UTC)

Seems okay to me - This actually gives me the idea to of a recommended gear page: There could be sections like general bossing, boss tanking and general slayer with rationales on why the gear is chosen. The page you did is a nice start to be worked on --

TIMMMO

^{Discuss Sign} 15:16, June 6, 2017 (UTC)

Comment - no issues with what you presented. I'm probably in the minority who would say "remove the gear tables" since everything is either "use the best gear you have" or "you can use style X, but style Y can be used as well". (ie: use Range on Dark Beasts, but Magic can work as well ... ) --Deltaslug (talk) 13:18, June 4, 2017 (UTC)

Main issue is that often people don't know what the best gear is, seeing as there's so many people killing things in inferior gear setups (like tank boots/gloves, full tetsu etc,). I think it's necessary for the gear tables to exist to help people maximise their kills per hour. Saucy bants (talk) 16:06, June 4, 2017 (UTC)

Is the gear template table standardized to just slot in the "best in tier"? This way, you just have a Melee Power setup, melee tank setup, range power set up, range tank setup, etc for each option? (I know there is a table, but I haven't seen how it's really setup) --Deltaslug (talk) 03:21, June 5, 2017 (UTC)

I decided to disclude tank armour as it's not useful for slayer in around 99% of scenarios; you kill monsters faster with power armour, so you take less damage. The tiers are generally set up in terms of effectiveness, which I determined based on stats, costs and requirements. Anima core helms aren't recommended for example, due to their high cost in comparison with Nex/Morrigan's/Zuriel's . The ZGS isn't included as it would not be effective for slayer in most scenarios due to its lack of halberd range. Shadow glaives are recommended over death lotus darts because they don't require ports, and their accuracy makes them more useful for bossing

So in many cases it's not strictly the best in tier, but it's the best item for that tier taking factors such as stats, costs are requirement into account. Saucy bants (talk) 07:00, June 5, 2017 (UTC)

Comment - As some others have said, a single page for recommended equipment would be very useful. I think this page shouldn't be a straightforward "this is best" though. It should be a guideline to players make a decision what would be useful equipment. --Galian prist (talk) 07:06, June 5, 2017 (UTC)

Comment & Small Summary - Okay here's a small summary of what is discussed above:

Tabulate the location part for easy reading?
The recommended equipment should be summarized in an independent page with reasons for choosing equipment
- Then, should the strategy page be replaced with a brief instruction (e.g. Wear melee power armour in this case) and give a link to that detailed page?

Besides, any comments on the suggested inventory and ability bar setup? -- TIMMMO ⁺⁺^{Discuss Sign} 15:16, June 6, 2017 (UTC)

I agree with the location table; list the pros and con of each location. Obviously I agree with linking to the independent recommended equipment page whilst recommending a style for each monster, and describing niche equipment choices for that particular monster.

Ability bar setup should link to Revolution/Bars; players can then customise as they wish. With regards to suggested inventory, could we perhaps have some sort of template(a 4x7 box with plinks to each item?)? That way we don't have to mess about with retaking screenshots should something need to be updated. Saucy bants (talk) 00:03, June 7, 2017 (UTC)

Actually there is an inventory template with plinks - Template:Inventory --

TIMMMO

^{Discuss Sign} 00:53, June 7, 2017 (UTC)

Had no idea, it's very well put together. I think we should maintain suggested inventories for each strategy. Saucy bants (talk) 02:08, June 7, 2017 (UTC)

Closed - Feedback has been received. --Liquid^Talk 13:07, June 12, 2017 (UTC)