Forum:Holiday event names

Forums: Yew Grove > Holiday event names

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This thread was archived on 25 August 2011 by Suppa chuppa.

Previous discussions: [1] [2]

Once again I propose to move all the holiday event articles starting from Christmas 2008 to their proper names. That is: Christmas 2008 » Chasing Jack Frost, Easter 2011 » Land of Holly and Hawthorn, etc. Not only does it look better, THEY ARE THE OFFICIAL NAMES. They were called like that in news posts and the in-game quest list during the event. That means that the current naming is the same as calling the spade article "metal thing for farming". We are a wiki and not Thok's mind. As such, the holiday events must be named by their official name, except of course the ones without a name. Few people search for "[event] [year]". They only do that because they know that we name articles like that, instead of using their proper names.

“	That's what redirects are for.	”
	— User:Nightgunner

Summarised, if this proposal doesn't pass, I'll make sure to move The Chosen Commander to "Dorgeshuun quest series finale", Unstable Foundations to "third tutorial" and While Guthix Sleeps to "first grandmaster quest" because, apparently, that's how we like our quest articles to be named. Oh, and how 'bout A Clockwork Syringe to "the quest in which Mi-Gor returns"?

Discussion

Strong support - I even dare say "per RS:G". Fsw e1 16:21, July 19, 2011 (UTC)

Support - Real names > What we have. We don't name bronze dagger the Jagex Dagger because that's what some people think of it, and use Bronze Dagger as a redirect. If they search "End of RuneScape" they'll be redirected to the event of which brought the end. :P User:TyA/sig 20:06, July 19, 2011 (UTC)

Since when do people call the Bronze Dagger the "Jagex Dagger"?

REDIRECT User:Kerri Amber/s.js 22:43, July 19, 2011 (UTC)

Support - For page names we always use the in-game name, as we should, except for these holiday events. They are the official names, and just redirect to them. Sentra246 07:04, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

Support - I said on the second discussion that once there was more events with quest names, I'd support, and I tink there's enough questy ones now to justify moving them. I will say that I'd prefer them to be moved to <Name> <Holiday> <Year>, eg "Chasing Jack Frost (Christmas 2008)", to help people tell at a glance what year they're looking at. User:Real Not Pure/Signature 20:33, July 21, 2011 (UTC)

I'd prefer it that way if it were changed. I've done the events and I can't remember which one is which. --Henneyj 01:46, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - The regular quests should have their given names, but the holiday events are usually searched by date. All items SHOULD have their in-game names, for maximum convenience. I prefer this method, as it's easier to identify what they are. --Youdead0016:39, July 22, 2011 (UTC)

And redirects will still get you to the correct page. User:Haloolah123/Sig 16:49, July 22, 2011 (UTC)

Something people never quite seem to get. User:C Teng/sig 21:24, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

Strong Support - Same reasons I have supported all the other threads. User:Haloolah123/Sig 16:49, July 22, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - Only problem I can see is the autocomplete will not be as useful because most people will be searching for the year of the event if they don't know the name. I haven't been able to find any way to include redirects on the autocomplete. It's a minor issue, but something that should be taken into consideration. ʞo oɔ 20:06, July 22, 2011 (UTC)

Sometimes the autocomplete does seem to use redirects, but most of the time not. I think the navbox does compensate a little.

Fsw e1

07:13, July 29, 2011 (UTC)

I think it includes redirects when the page has been moved from that location and it just hasn't updated. --Henneyj 01:43, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

Support per everything I said in Forum:Holiday event articles - change all names. User:C Teng/sig 21:24, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - Per previous discussions. And per everything I said in Forum:Holiday event articles - change all names. Per consistency in naming convention. Sorry, but most of the issues from the previous discussions has not been addressed, and simply reiterating does not help.

Few people search for "[event] [year]" Do you proof to claim that? To counter your claim, I can simply say that few people remember the "official" name for Christmas 2009. Can you remember it?

And, we are not talking about quest pages here, but holiday/seasonal event pages... surely that tiny difference matters? User:Azliq7 06:53, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

A Christmas Warble.

Anyway, since Chasing Jack Frost, events are named and behave like novice quests. Simply because they have a name, we must use it. Otherwise we can call KotD "dwarf quest 2011". And even if, say, 90% of the people search [event] [year] (or vice versa, we don't even have consistency in the naming), they are redirected to the right article. As I've heard, most people search for "WGS" instead of While Guthix Sleeps, yet we give the article its correct name, not what most people search. This is the same case.

Fsw e1

10:30, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

The reason people type WGS is because they know it stands for While Guthix Sleeps. They are just too lazy to type the whole phrase out when they are searching. However, if I type Christmas 2010, that doesn't mean I know what the name of the event is.

Lil cloud 9 ^Talk 13:59, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, sure. They type WGS, knowing that it will lead them to the right article. So, once again, "that's what redirects are for".

Fsw e1

18:29, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - we could also just put a {{shortcut}} box on every holiday page so people know what to search for when they want to find the article. Then we can move the articles to the official name without too much trouble of people not finding the articles. JOEYTJE50 TALK pull my finger 11:34, July 31, 2011 (UTC)

Comment - Use {{title}} to change the name of the articles, and add the "official" titles in the navbox template. User:Azliq7 03:31, August 1, 2011 (UTC)

Why not just move it? An inexperienced user may not see the template's use and remove it whereas a move won't be undone (per this discussion, if it passes).

Fsw e1

07:33, August 1, 2011 (UTC)

Per my earlier comments. I hate repeating myself over and over... but moving these pages goes against the standard naming system we have for ALL seasonal articles, which include April Fools, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Halloween, etc. for the past 10 years which may or may not have "official" names. User:Azliq7 08:44, August 1, 2011 (UTC)

Those that DO have a name shall be moved. The nameless ones (pun intended) cannot and will therefore remain as they are now. It may seem against the standard, but they must be moved for simply having a name. It's Sir Tiffy, not Man (Falador Park).

Fsw e1

11:39, August 1, 2011 (UTC)

So, you're proposing making everything look as though it's moved, doing so as complicated and difficult of a way as possible, without actually moving the pages? Pretty pointless. User:C Teng/sig 16:57, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

It is still pointless to move them if the official name is not set in stone. User:Azliq7 10:39, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

That still doesn't make your proposal not pointless. And you can only argue that the official names aren't commonly used, you can't argue that they aren't set in stone, because they are. User:C Teng/sig 17:07, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

Support - As per the nominator (who is the nominator? Sign please?). It sounds like some of you guys are misunderstanding what redirects are for. Yes, lots of people probably search for [event] [year] (I usually would), but that's what the redirect is for! It'll capture that search and take them to the right page, problem solved. Yay. Hofmic Talk 22:31, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

I'm the nominator. And I've signed.

Fsw e1

05:31, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

Support - It's the name set by Jagex, it's the name we should use. Ededdeddy97 01:06, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

Support - Per Nom User:Tyilo/Signature 04:45, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Question + Comment -

Jagex uses "Christmas 2009" in the guide, "A Christmas Warble (Christmas 2009)" in the news post, and "Christmas 2009 holiday event" in the second news post.
They use "O' Little Town of Daemonheim (Christmas 2010)" (O with an apostrophe) in the news post, "Christmas 2010 - O Little Town of Daemonheim" in the guide (O without an apostrophe), and "Christmas 2010 event" in the second news post.
"Chasing Jack Frost" (2008 Christmas event) is never mentioned... not in the guide, nor in the the news post. It is simply called "Christmas event".
Easter 2011 is not "Land of Holly and Hawthorn" as the OP mentioned, but just "Holly and Hawthorn" according to the guide.

Which "official" name do we use? The only acceptable name would be the in-game name... but how can we be certain of the correct name once the event is over? User:Azliq7 10:39, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Point taken. The official name is the in-game name. The news posts and KB articles are called [event] [year] (or something) for convenience, as, like you say, some people might not remember the name. But they do not have redirects, whereas we do. Moves will change next to nothing to the article. Even if 100% of the people search the year and not the name, they are still brought to the correct article, so it doesn't matter. It's just better to use the official name (no matter what the KB says, we use in-game names per RS:G). 83.163.83.132 10:51, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Oh, sorry, logout. It is I, Fswe1.

Fsw e1

10:53, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Btw, Wikia skin (Oasis) does not list redirect in the search suggestions, so entering the year will not lead them to the article. That is the problem. JOEYTJE50 TALK pull my finger 09:23, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

No, redirects aren't listed, but still work. Everything will redirect, Christmas 2010, 2010 Christmas, Xmas 2010, etc. Not a problem.

Fsw e1

10:20, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

Notice - This proposal needs to address all of the issues from current/previous threads in order to pass. This is namely the issue of redirects not appearing in search, ease in navigational templates, and the inconsistency of Jagex naming conventions among the game itself and game guide/database articles. Suppa chuppa ^Talk 18:47, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

Redirects not appearing in search is not much of a problem. I mean, people can spell Christmas without help and add a year, I hope... For the templates, there might be an easy solution: [[2007 Christmas event|2007]] {{*}} [[Chasing Jack Frost|2008]]. As for the game guide, we always name articles after their in-game names.

Fsw e1

06:18, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - As I mentioned in the previous thread a very long time ago, consistency should be maintained between holiday event names. --Liquid^Talk 18:54, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

Even if that means that some articles will be named incorrectly?

Fsw e1

06:18, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

They won't be named incorrectly. The Christmas 2009 event is the Christmas 2009 event, regardless of what other name it may be known by. The current name is a perfectly legitimate name. --Liquid^Talk 13:00, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

No, it's not the title name, but the descriptive name. It describes the phenomenon (in this case the event) instead of naming it.

Fsw e1

13:31, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

They will be consistent under this proposal - unless you mean for the first few years of holiday events, which are unnamed, but there is nothing wrong with simply describing a subject with a conjectural title. User:C Teng/sig 00:57, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - Consistency and recognizability sounds much better to me than just using the official name instead. I really don't expect someone twenty years from now to look at the official name of the 2010 Christmas event and have a clue as to what year and type of event it was. Smithing (talk | contribs) 13:45, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

People just don't seem to get this. But that does not matter, I'll just say it again. » REDIRECTS! « Anyone may type Christmas 2010, or 2010 Christmas or Christmas '10 or whatever in twenty years and the redirect will still bring them to the correct page. Thank you.

Fsw e1

13:51, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

I don't buy that argument. O Little Town of Daemonheim can be redirected to 2010 Christmas event too, if anyone happens to search that. Smithing (talk | contribs) 13:56, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, but it's better to have Colloquial name >redirect> Official name than vice versa. Just like Myreque quest V redirects to Branches of Darkmeyer.

Fsw e1

14:09, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Strong oppose - Per other opposes, and the fact that nobody searches by "Official" name. If I want to look up the 2005 Christmas event, I don't know the name for my life! The current naming system we have is much easier and simpler to use. I would support putting the official name at the top of the page, though, in a more noticeable fashion. Adam Savage 14:15, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Weak support - for adding the redirects. Adam Savage

14:17, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Xmas '05 has no official name.

Anyway, using {{title|Official name}} is not very useful, it's a lot easier to just move. And even if nobody searches the official name (I do), redirects will do their job. I see no problem whatsoever.

Fsw e1

14:21, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - Per my previous reasons. --クールネシ^トーク 02:55, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

Closed - Discussion has died down, and there doesn't seem to be any sort of consensus to implement the proposed changes. Suppa chuppa ^Talk 15:50, August 25, 2011 (UTC)