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Forums: Yew Grove > Distinction of Ironman related content in guides

This is a subject that have been brought up reccently in the Discord Channel, should ironmens related content have a distinction in game guides?

To be honest, I think yes, because it would actually benefits both side (IM and non-IM), for Non-Ironmen: a distinction could be useful to avoid potential misreading and doing useless step. For Ironmens, it would help to find ironmen-specific information quicker than searching through the page. This would probably only to quest and skill guides, some suggested to make a toggle but that is clearly not possible (atleast without rewriting). My idea is also that the info/quest boxes contain links that redirect to the obtention procedure and not throwing all the information at once.

Suggestion 1Edit

Note: it could be made way greyer). Here an example with this totally legit quest box that hilight ironmens specifics information.

Suggestion 1
Start pointQuest map icon
Plague's End icon
Speak to Elysys in eastern Lletya.
Member requirementP2P icon Members only
Official difficultyGrandmaster Grandmaster
LengthLonger than Sliske's Endgame.
Requirements
Quest Quests:
Boosts do not work for any of the above requirements and the quest cannot be started unless they are met.
Items requiredItems from the tool belt are not listed unless they do not work or are not automatically added.
  • A full set of Ancient Dragon armour (Ironmen can craft it by killing corrupted nihilis)
  • Triskelion/Nigram Clavem (if lost, it can be reclaimed to Emundi)
  • Fuk-Thaar Relic
  • A soul talisman (Ironmen can get it by doing the miniquest one last small favour).
  • Anti-poison to protect against Quigs poison (for ironmen see this for the reciepe)

Recommended:

Enemies to defeat
  • Multiple Inferlas demons, up to level 83
  • Madara B (level 120)
  • Mathemagical Exoskeleton (level 107)
  • Multiple Quigs
  • 7x Hellios (level 775)
  • The Shadow of Thaar (level 1225)

This would be a quick visual mark and the player would quicly know it is for Ironmens

Suggestion 2Edit

Instead of gray text, it would be thse little ironman icon:

Suggestion 2
Start pointQuest map icon
Plague's End icon
Speak to Elysys in eastern Lletya.
Member requirementP2P icon Members only
Official difficultyGrandmaster Grandmaster
LengthLonger than Sliske's Endgame.
Requirements
Quest Quests:
Boosts do not work for any of the above requirements and the quest cannot be started unless they are met.
Items requiredItems from the tool belt are not listed unless they do not work or are not automatically added.
  • A full set of Ancient Dragon armour (Ironman badge can craft it by killing corrupted nihilis)
  • Triskelion/Nigram Clavem (if lost, it can be reclaimed to Emundi)
  • Fuk-Thaar Relic
  • A soul talisman (Ironmen can get it by doing the miniquest one last small favour).
  • Anti-poison to protect against Quigs poison (Ironman badge see see this for the reciepe)

Recommended:

Enemies to defeat
  • Multiple Inferlas demons, up to level 83
  • Madara B (level 120)
  • Mathemagical Exoskeleton (level 107)
  • Multiple Quigs
  • 7x Hellios (level 775)
  • The Shadow of Thaar (level 1225)

Suggestion 3Edit

This suggestion is that we revisit every quest and skill page and make sure that the formating make the info for ironmen is distinct from the main text body.

ᚹᛜᚹᚴᚳᚴᛋ ᛋᚴᚨᚨᚱᚣᛈᛁᚴᛖ! - x5sQGus.png  Manpaint55 ᚮᚠ ᚼᛂᛚᛚᛁᚮᛋ (t)(c) 01:17, June 14, 2017 (UTC)

wut? cqm 08:07, 14 Jun 2017 (UTC)

DiscussionEdit

Support with comment - I think this with "Ironman" written underneath the icon would make visibility and underatanding simpler. - Purple partyhat Sparky Kitty the WikianFiremaking 01:27, June 14, 2017 (UTC)

Comment - I prefer suggestion 1, it looks visually appealing. The ironman symbol is may not be as recognizable to regular users. Personally, I think it would be better to create a separate quest information tab (ie. the tabs here specifically for ironman where you can list out the ironman skill requirements which may be different from regular skill requirements in addition to implementing suggestion 1. BGUyLfN.png CJaW7Er.png 02:30, June 14, 2017 (UTC)

EDIT: Just to clarify, I don't believe there are any differences in the quest guide steps per say. Correct me if I'm wrong. The only difference/distinction I could think of was the items required for completion (inflating the necessary skill requirements) being different. The other difference would probably be the combat level required due to less optimal gear? BGUyLfN.png CJaW7Er.png 02:34, June 14, 2017 (UTC)
Yes, the ironman specification would be mostly used in the quest req box, but I also think it would be useful in the required item sub-header, after that idk if ironman effect the guide himself (atleast for quests).

x5sQGus.png  Manpaint55 ᚮᚠ ᚼᛂᛚᛚᛁᚮᛋ (t)(c) 14:27, June 14, 2017 (UTC)


Support 1 - cqm 08:12, 14 Jun 2017 (UTC)

Oppose 1 as written - I think gray'd out text for ironmen-only requirements are fine, but not for putting parentheses telling them what the recipe for an antipoison is... In the list of required items, they're always all linked to the respective item pages anyway, so it's not like people can't just click the link, and anyone who's playing an ironman should know that they'll have to make all that themselves. Grayed out text for ironmen-only requirements should look like what we have on Tears of Guthix (quest) with the 49 smithing/crafting grayed out. I would support something that just adds ironmen requirements in gray, not text after every item.

I'm really not a fan of the ironman icon to indicate ironman only requirements as shown in suggestion 2, as the symbol by itself looks like dumbbells and isn't that suggestive of ironmen (or maybe it's just me), and since it doesn't incorporate the hardcore logo.

Lastly, 320 construction would be about like 41 quadrillion xp. At 600k/hr that would take 69 billion hours (8 million years) to complete. Even if you somehow were able to make demonic thrones at absolute maximum efficiency for 15.3m/hr, that would still take 300,000 years (at a cost of 32 quintillion gp). And yet somehow I still want Jagex to raise the level and xp cap so I can get more construction levels. >_> --LiquidTalk 14:28, June 14, 2017 (UTC)

Oppose all as-is - I agree with Liquid's statements above. I also agree with Shoy. I think we need a collapsible box that looks like Module:Questreq that we can use for Ironman skill requirements, required items and recommended items. That way, we save space for users that don't want to see it, and we can cater for both kinds of player. Maybe the collapsible box can be suitable to use throughout the quest guide rather than just the requirements etc too, so that if there's a point in the quest that will require an Ironman player to perform a different action, it can be noted with an expanding box. N4c6jLG.pngsfrb88c.png 14:35, June 14, 2017 (UTC)

Proposal/suggestion - I've created a collapsible box as I outlined in my comment above. I think this looks pretty nice on the page. With the hardcore icon as well, it provides extra distinction than just the look of the dumbbells as Liquid indicated:

Example on a quest page
This page was created as a demonstration and may not be up-to-date.
Start pointQuest map icon
Tears of Guthix (quest) icon
Talk to Juna, deep inside the Lumbridge Swamp cave.
Member requirementP2P icon Members only
Official difficultyIntermediate Intermediate
LengthShort
Requirements
Quest Quests:
Ironman badge Hardcore Ironman badge Ironmen:

Recommended:

  • Unlocking the swamp shortcut during The Lost Tribe for ease of getting to Juna.
  • 49 Crafting Crafting, if you wish to make your own lantern. You don't need these levels to replace the lens by a sapphire in an existing bullseye lantern.
Items requiredItems from the tool belt are not listed unless they do not work or are not automatically added.
Items recommended
  • Starting The Lost Tribe to access the Lumbridge Swamp Caves through the Lumbridge's kitchen tunnel and wearing a lit sapphire lantern can be used to avoid the other items required.
  • Spiny helmet/Slayer helmet to negate damage from wall beasts.
Enemies to defeat None

N4c6jLG.pngsfrb88c.png 22:27, June 14, 2017 (UTC)

Comment - I was going to refer to Liquidhelm, but Jayden's suggestion above actually looks quite appealing. However, its use is limited to quest guides and frankly I think there are more ironman-specific things to be found in minigames and bosses. 18px-Avatar.png Fswe1 26px-Brassica_Prime_symbol.svg.png 06:39, June 15, 2017 (UTC)

Comment - I agree with Liquid and I support Jayden's proposal. Fussy does make a point though, how do we deal with non-quest guide ironmen stuff? Willow tree Salix of Prifddinas Prifddinas lodestone icon 00:23, June 16, 2017 (UTC)

Support Jayjay's idea -Ava_Cskai_chathead_small.pngScuzzy BetaBurthorpe lodestone icon 01:13, June 21, 2017 (UTC)

Comment - Jayden's version is good, although I think it could do with some formatting to make it more distinguishable - a border and/or background, probably in grey (I'm quite partially to a thick dotted border but whatever). It's to the benefit of both ironmen and non-ironmen that it's obvious that the section in question is separate. In terms of other areas (non-quest guide), if we nail down a format for such sections then we can have that single formatting wiki-wide and chances are the only differences from the quest guide will be that you don't need to make the section collapsible. --Henneyj 22:16, June 21, 2017 (UTC)

Support - Yeah Jayden's version imo is great because it doesn't bloat it too much as it requires being expanded. Also the IM and HCIM icons are easy to catch at a glance. bHf0gSh.png23:58, June 22, 2017 (UTC)

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