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This thread was archived on 18 September 2012 by Spineweilder.

Now that we [the RSW clan] have built the clan avatar habitat and have experimented with it a bit, it seems time to set up some formal guidelines for clan admins using it.

About making wardens

The avatar warden job is now the only clan job that has any benefit for the users with it. Avatar warden can only be given to users with the clan rank of admin or higher - for all users with this rank or higher, see RuneScape:Clan Chat/Ranked names (I have also added a column to show which users have the job). Up to now, I have given the job out to those who have asked me for it - myself, Elune Azika, Eotech AR15, Ryan M, bad_fetus, Yodapen, and rwojy.

Much like the two clan citadel editing ranks (organiser vs clan admin and deputy owner vs overseer), I don't think we need a large number of wardens, nor do we need a formal process to decide who is a warden. New wardens can be added if they're interested, have read the page about the avatar (much easier to do than directing new clanmates to the rules, given clan admin or above entails use of the wiki and knowledge of the clan chat pages). I've been playing it by hand, passing it out to people who would help and are in varied timezones to keep the avatar about as much as possible. I/other ranks can continue to do this.

Other proposed changes
  • Create RuneScape:Clan Chat/Clan Avatar (RS:CC/CA or RS:CC/A) for these guidelines
  • Move the sections about the avatar (who can summon, what buffs they have) from RuneScape:Clan Chat/Citadel/General to RS:CC/A, as other than the actual building of the habitat, needing to go there to summon the avatar, and one of the buffs, the avatar doesn't have much to do with the citadel
  • Add quick instructions on how to get access to the buffs for clanmates, and how to summon the avatar for wardens
  • Add info on how to become a warden if interested
  • Describe the buffs and some misconceptions we've picked up in the clan chat

Discuss.

Update
  • RuneScape:Clan Chat/Clan Avatar is up, in draft and needs refining, please discuss
  • Suggestion of using coordinator rank - bump all current organisers to coordinators, give all coordinators (and deputy owners) Avatar Warden, and clan admins with warden get organiser - to show who is a warden

Discussion

Proposed - As Quest Gaz Lloyd AwesomeEvents!99s 21:57, August 25, 2012 (UTC)

Support Guidelines/All other changes/Rank Bump (+Comments) - Looks good to me. The comments I had were: 1. As these are described as "guidelines" and not "rules", will there be consequences for a warden frequently ignoring/going against the policy you've outlined? (ie. Should the grounds for removal of the warden clan job be included in the guidelines?) 2. Keeping the number of wardens relatively small seems like a good idea; however, leaving the "how to become a warden" section in such a subjective and unspecific state might not be. Possibly including a max # of wardens, a policy for preferential treatment in creating wardens of lesser-used time zones, etc.... might help decision-making in the future. tl;dr - It'd be fine as is, but flushing it out with the "other proposed changes" and a bit more structure might save headaches in the future. Red partyhat detail Pen Draig Talk King Black Dragon 01:29, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

Being a warden has a precondition of being a clan admin. This implies at least a level of trust to not abuse all the tools available - extending that trust to warden duties isn't that large of a jump really. Regarding each of the guidelines specifically:
  • If we find that a warden is purposely summoning the avatar and immediately logging out to prevent its use - very often and over a notable amount of time - that would be grounds for removal of the job; but the occasional time where you forget to dismiss before logging out is understandable.
  • I can understand if a warden doesn't want to use world 39 - I get 300ms ping on it, and that is pretty much the highest I will tolerate when playing. If someone has a lower tolerance I can understand - I'm sure if people really want the boost they can work out a world that is okay for everyone involved.
  • If someone is purposely going to skill total/etc worlds and going to remote locations with the avatar to spite other clanmates, or otherwise purposely being unhelpful that would be a dick move and could be grounds for removal if it continues for a significant time. A warden with an avatar in W39 training in the Jadinko Lair for a few hours is fine, especially if that is balanced by time spent training/idling in a popular bank for clanmates to train together.
Even after stating this, I don't believe we'll ever have a problem. I trust that all the admins we have are capable of following the guidelines well - and if they don't feel they can, they don't opt-in to the job. If we do get wardens abusing their job then it is very easy for us to remove it.
Regarding point 2, I'll get a draft RS:CC/A written up shortly with stuff fleshed out. Quest Gaz Lloyd AwesomeEvents!99s 20:01, August 26, 2012 (UTC)
I agree that everyone with the rank of admin or above that can have the job title is entirely trustworthy and capable of it, and I'll add that so far they have all been more than generous with their time and availability in helping clan members. I don't foresee any problems, but it couldn't hurt to have consequential guidelines (similar to the bullet points above) included in the page. I think a policy for giving the job title to clan members is far more useful than a policy for taking it away (as I imagine many new admins will want avatar privileges as well). I assume all of that will be included in the final draft of the page anyway, just throwing it out there to make sure. Red partyhat detail Pen Draig Talk King Black Dragon 21:08, August 26, 2012 (UTC)
Page up, needs refining and such Quest Gaz Lloyd AwesomeEvents!99s 00:12, August 27, 2012 (UTC)

Support all - I'm no longer in the CC, but this looks good =). Haidro (talk) 09:22, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

Support & Idea - Might it be worth bringing the Co-ordinator rank into effect in the clan chat, to distinguish the wardens for regular users to see? I've seen plenty of people ask about who the avatar wardens are, and when they're online. Broav (monster) Rhys Talk Completionist cape 21:00, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

The only problem is we have is that we have 4 kinds of admin right now (ignoring owner): admin, admin with citadel, 'crat-equivalent, 'crat with citadel. Citadel is kept to a small number of people and should stay that way - too many cooks spoil the broth and all that. And aside from the tick, which I've done all except 3 or so, there's not a lot to do in it, so having less people to mess things up is a good thing.
However, if all citadel-enabled ranks automatically got avatar warden (currently 4 of the 6 people able to edit the citadel have it anyway), we could use the organiser rank to show normal admins with avatar warden (and bump current organiser to coordinator). That could work, needs more discussion. Quest Gaz Lloyd AwesomeEvents!99s 00:12, August 27, 2012 (UTC)
I really don't think there's a need for a separate rank for avatar wardens. It is such a small thing that I think it would be easier to just ask around the clan chat if any avatar warden is available. It would also induce confusion over which of the higher ranks are avatar wardens. I, for example, have a silver key (for now) and are not and do not want to be a warden.
I am not sure if Jagex limited handing out the "Avatar Warden" job to current wardens, but if not, then anyone of rank organizer or higher is effectively a warden provided another administrator is present. For example, if I was there with , say, Ryan, and someone wanted a warden, I could just change his job. --LiquidTalk 04:49, August 27, 2012 (UTC)

We could really use another warden from about 0400 UTC until 0900 or so. One problem there is that there is that I am usually the only admin, so we should consider bumping a non wiki admin to a admin the the cc to give the tool of Avatar warden. I imagine that some people will get their panties twisted over this idea, but if we can get past that it will be for the benefit of all the night timers and Aussies and others who often miss out on the avatar buffs. And there are a lot of them. --Degenret01 (talk) 01:34, August 27, 2012 (UTC)

RS:RFR#Current Requests for Clan Admin bad_fetustalk 02:01, August 27, 2012 (UTC)

Support - Per Gaz, although I would like to make it clear that sometimes the clan members will also need to sacrifice time if they want to be able to use it sometimes. For example, I might be on W70 because Yoda was on W39 when I summoned a avatar, thus making it impossible for me to use it on W39. Yoda logs off after a bit but I'm already committed to a task at hand and unable to switch servers. Just a minor issue, but this also evolves into when the current online admins are Dungeoneering and can't have the avatar out has previously caused outcry from some users and it was jarring to say the least. Ryan PM 08:05, August 28, 2012 (UTC)

Support - Not entirely convinced whether the avatar is a worthwhile update, but the guidelines are a sensible idea. cqm 10:02,28/8/2012 (UTC)

support + addition - I like it, but I would like something about if a warden has a buff that isn't skillboost to not annoy them or try to make them jump to your world for your own convenience. JGLXXBucket detailrwojy 16:07, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

Closed - No discussion for over a week; also proposals have been placed in RS:CC/A. --Spined helm SpineTalkXp book 18:06, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

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